Discussion:
c and telephones
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fir
2017-05-04 18:37:51 UTC
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is there some model of popular smartphone on which i just could code just in c? (most preferably with mingw on windows sending executable just down there?)

fckn phones - crappy java, obj-c (better than java but still ugly obj-c api), or .net/xna trash)

is there something 'normal' there?
(i dont even get a phone (not counting very old partially damaged one) so i just dont know)..
j***@gmail.com
2017-05-05 02:29:05 UTC
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Post by fir
is there some model of popular smartphone on which i just could code
just in c?
I know why I want to code on my tablet, but I don't much care to code
on a phone. (I have tried.)

Or do you mean code for the phone, not on the phone, as in working
on a PC and loading the code into the phone, to write your own
applications?
Post by fir
(most preferably with mingw on windows sending executable
just down there?)
Windows phone? Do they run on x86? Ick. Power drain.
Post by fir
fckn phones - crappy java, obj-c (better than java but still ugly
obj-c api), or .net/xna trash)
is there something 'normal' there?
Hah. Canonical tried to get an Ubuntu phone going, but apparently
the market just failed to appear.

Phones sponsored by vendors (meaning reasonably priced phones) are
pretty much always going to be locked tighter than a drum.

That means they do everything they can to keep you from installing
applications that circumvent their revenue stream.

That means the standard libraries are not standard. Seriously
broken in some ways.

With that warning, there are a number of applications for Android
phones that provide some sort of access to C language programming.

I have been using "terminal ide", by spartacus rex, to program on
my tablet (on the train), but you have to have an older phone
with an OS older than Android 4.4. (Current Android development is
on version 6.)

I used to use a "debian no-root" application by pelya, but that
takes a gigabyte of your internal SD to do anything usefu, which
is always tight. I need the space for other applications.

For hosted development, the last I checked, you can use a PC
(including Linux OSses) to write programs in C and load them
onto an Android phone, but not all phones are easy to develop
on. Mostly, if you are going to do serious Android development,
you need a development-oriented phone.

I've never been rich enough, so I can't recommend one.
Post by fir
(i dont even get a phone (not counting very old partially damaged one)
so i just dont know)..
My tablet has an old OS, and the vendor hasn't updated it since 2.4.
Firefox, Google Mail, and some other stuff no longer run.

(Currently, my programming-on-the-road needs are being met by gforth.)

When I find some time, I'm going to try jailbreaking it and
installing a real OS. But I have to get a replacement first.
(And I have to get a new job before that, I guess.)

--
Joel Rees

Trying to reinvent the industry all by myself is a lonesome hobby:
http://defining-computers.blogspot.jp/
fir
2017-05-05 06:54:15 UTC
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Post by j***@gmail.com
Post by fir
is there some model of popular smartphone on which i just could code
just in c?
I know why I want to code on my tablet, but I don't much care to code
on a phone. (I have tried.)
Or do you mean code for the phone, not on the phone, as in working
on a PC and loading the code into the phone, to write your own
applications?
Post by fir
(most preferably with mingw on windows sending executable
just down there?)
Windows phone? Do they run on x86? Ick. Power drain.
Post by fir
fckn phones - crappy java, obj-c (better than java but still ugly
obj-c api), or .net/xna trash)
is there something 'normal' there?
Hah. Canonical tried to get an Ubuntu phone going, but apparently
the market just failed to appear.
Phones sponsored by vendors (meaning reasonably priced phones) are
pretty much always going to be locked tighter than a drum.
That means they do everything they can to keep you from installing
applications that circumvent their revenue stream.
That means the standard libraries are not standard. Seriously
broken in some ways.
With that warning, there are a number of applications for Android
phones that provide some sort of access to C language programming.
I have been using "terminal ide", by spartacus rex, to program on
my tablet (on the train), but you have to have an older phone
with an OS older than Android 4.4. (Current Android development is
on version 6.)
I used to use a "debian no-root" application by pelya, but that
takes a gigabyte of your internal SD to do anything usefu, which
is always tight. I need the space for other applications.
For hosted development, the last I checked, you can use a PC
(including Linux OSses) to write programs in C and load them
onto an Android phone, but not all phones are easy to develop
on. Mostly, if you are going to do serious Android development,
you need a development-oriented phone.
I've never been rich enough, so I can't recommend one.
Post by fir
(i dont even get a phone (not counting very old partially damaged one)
so i just dont know)..
My tablet has an old OS, and the vendor hasn't updated it since 2.4.
Firefox, Google Mail, and some other stuff no longer run.
(Currently, my programming-on-the-road needs are being met by gforth.)
When I find some time, I'm going to try jailbreaking it and
installing a real OS. But I have to get a replacement first.
(And I have to get a new job before that, I guess.)
so in short it probably means "as far as i know, no" ?

i mean easy c coding you compile c (preferably with mingw), you send 1 executable and you run it

this is something that is needed 'on the market' and i think that would be succesful, coz it means it would not be crap as this android java sdk is
J. Clarke
2017-05-13 07:44:52 UTC
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Post by fir
Post by j***@gmail.com
Post by fir
is there some model of popular smartphone on which i just could code
just in c?
I know why I want to code on my tablet, but I don't much care to code
on a phone. (I have tried.)
Or do you mean code for the phone, not on the phone, as in working
on a PC and loading the code into the phone, to write your own
applications?
Post by fir
(most preferably with mingw on windows sending executable
just down there?)
Windows phone? Do they run on x86? Ick. Power drain.
Post by fir
fckn phones - crappy java, obj-c (better than java but still ugly
obj-c api), or .net/xna trash)
is there something 'normal' there?
Hah. Canonical tried to get an Ubuntu phone going, but apparently
the market just failed to appear.
Phones sponsored by vendors (meaning reasonably priced phones) are
pretty much always going to be locked tighter than a drum.
That means they do everything they can to keep you from installing
applications that circumvent their revenue stream.
That means the standard libraries are not standard. Seriously
broken in some ways.
With that warning, there are a number of applications for Android
phones that provide some sort of access to C language programming.
I have been using "terminal ide", by spartacus rex, to program on
my tablet (on the train), but you have to have an older phone
with an OS older than Android 4.4. (Current Android development is
on version 6.)
I used to use a "debian no-root" application by pelya, but that
takes a gigabyte of your internal SD to do anything usefu, which
is always tight. I need the space for other applications.
For hosted development, the last I checked, you can use a PC
(including Linux OSses) to write programs in C and load them
onto an Android phone, but not all phones are easy to develop
on. Mostly, if you are going to do serious Android development,
you need a development-oriented phone.
I've never been rich enough, so I can't recommend one.
Post by fir
(i dont even get a phone (not counting very old partially damaged one)
so i just dont know)..
My tablet has an old OS, and the vendor hasn't updated it since 2.4.
Firefox, Google Mail, and some other stuff no longer run.
(Currently, my programming-on-the-road needs are being met by gforth.)
When I find some time, I'm going to try jailbreaking it and
installing a real OS. But I have to get a replacement first.
(And I have to get a new job before that, I guess.)
so in short it probably means "as far as i know, no" ?
i mean easy c coding you compile c (preferably with mingw), you send 1 executable and you run it
this is something that is needed 'on the market' and i think that would be succesful, coz it means it would not be crap as this android java sdk is
Google "Android NDK".

Chad
2017-05-05 14:32:32 UTC
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Post by fir
is there some model of popular smartphone on which i just could code just in c? (most preferably with mingw on windows sending executable just down there?)
fckn phones - crappy java, obj-c (better than java but still ugly obj-c api), or .net/xna trash)
is there something 'normal' there?
(i dont even get a phone (not counting very old partially damaged one) so i just dont know)..
In terms of getting things done in a reasonable amount of time, and like, more to the point, being able to have your code link to other things, it's probably just best to suck it up and learn Java you twit.
Mr. Man-wai Chang
2017-05-05 14:57:44 UTC
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Post by fir
is there some model of popular smartphone on which i just could code just in c? (most preferably with mingw on windows sending executable just down there?)
fckn phones - crappy java, obj-c (better than java but still ugly obj-c api), or .net/xna trash)
is there something 'normal' there?
(i dont even get a phone (not counting very old partially damaged one) so i just dont know)..
I think iOS is using Objective C if my memory serves... and Swift.

https://www.google.com.hk/search?q=ios+objective+c&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=2pIMWcGZJIGm0ATEmpnwDw
--
@~@ Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch! Live long and prosper!!
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty!
/( _ )\ May the Force and farces be with you!
^ ^ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10) Linux 2.6.39.3
不借貸! 不詐騙! 不援交! 不打交! 不打劫! 不自殺! 請考慮綜援 (CSSA):
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fir
2017-05-05 16:29:15 UTC
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Post by Mr. Man-wai Chang
Post by fir
is there some model of popular smartphone on which i just could code just in c? (most preferably with mingw on windows sending executable just down there?)
fckn phones - crappy java, obj-c (better than java but still ugly obj-c api), or .net/xna trash)
is there something 'normal' there?
(i dont even get a phone (not counting very old partially damaged one) so i just dont know)..
I think iOS is using Objective C if my memory serves... and Swift.
https://www.google.com.hk/search?q=ios+objective+c&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=2pIMWcGZJIGm0ATEmpnwDw
i know but IOS uses obj-c api and its weird oop based machinery behind the scenes which you could interface in c and
which is a crap

people just need such c as like on windows and normal machines - c api c code, thats all.. weird no smartphones
i heard support that

- in fact most pleasant situation would be just run the same executables on desktop and on phone (this is obviously technically possible) - becouse in other case you must dwell with emulators and it is crap again
Mr. Man-wai Chang
2017-05-05 18:24:19 UTC
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Post by fir
i know but IOS uses obj-c api and its weird oop based machinery behind the scenes which you could interface in c and
which is a crap
people just need such c as like on windows and normal machines - c api c code, thats all.. weird no smartphones
i heard support that
- in fact most pleasant situation would be just run the same executables on desktop and on phone (this is obviously technically possible) - becouse in other case you must dwell with emulators and it is crap again
Talk to friends or classmates who know how to write an iOS app.
--
@~@ Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch! Live long and prosper!!
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty!
/( _ )\ May the Force and farces be with you!
^ ^ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10) Linux 2.6.39.3
不借貸! 不詐騙! 不援交! 不打交! 不打劫! 不自殺! 請考慮綜援 (CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa
Thiago Adams
2017-05-05 16:48:07 UTC
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Post by fir
is there some model of popular smartphone on which i just could code just in c? (most preferably with mingw on windows sending executable just down there?)
You can use C to build Android IOS and Windows Apps.
There are some details.

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dn707591.aspx

Sample:
https://code.msdn.microsoft.com/hello-gl2-Android-3b61896c/sourcecode?fileId=135959&pathId=913373117
fir
2017-05-05 17:15:20 UTC
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Post by Thiago Adams
Post by fir
is there some model of popular smartphone on which i just could code just in c? (most preferably with mingw on windows sending executable just down there?)
You can use C to build Android IOS and Windows Apps.
There are some details.
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dn707591.aspx
https://code.msdn.microsoft.com/hello-gl2-Android-3b61896c/sourcecode?fileId=135959&pathId=913373117
but what is that

extern "C" {
JNIEXPORT void JNICALL Java_com_android_gl2jni_GL2JNILib_init(JNIEnv * env, jobject obj, jint width, jint height);
JNIEXPORT void JNICALL Java_com_android_gl2jni_GL2JNILib_step(JNIEnv * env, jobject obj);
};

JNIEXPORT void JNICALL Java_com_android_gl2jni_GL2JNILib_init(JNIEnv * env, jobject obj, jint width, jint height)
{
setupGraphics(width, height);
}

JNIEXPORT void JNICALL Java_com_android_gl2jni_GL2JNILib_step(JNIEnv * env, jobject obj)
{
renderFrame();
}

it looks like calling jva-nature api maybe, here it is small amount of it but probably this andrioid exposes a lot of
usefull api in this java nature

if you can keep it thight it is okay but
still probably its not full c - depends if i can code with purely c way not using and reading a lot about this java-android trash (i dont know java nor android (java i know a bit but only basic java))

still searching and waiting for phone os where you could run c desktop apps - i understand cpus my differ but 1) matybe some common subset ? (if no i would prefer the desktop emulating phone cpu
or just separate cpu compilation but on teh same api /not touching the code only switching generated asm.. Some big fishes in the phone biz really should do that)
Scott Lurndal
2017-05-05 18:43:06 UTC
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W dniu pi=C4=85tek, 5 maja 2017 18:48:25 UTC+2 u=C5=BCytkownik Thiago Adams=
is there some model of popular smartphone on which i just could code ju=
but what is that=20
extern "C" {=20
JNIEXPORT void JNICALL Java_com_android_gl2jni_GL2JNILib_init(JNIEnv * =
env, jobject obj, jint width, jint height);=20
JNIEXPORT void JNICALL Java_com_android_gl2jni_GL2JNILib_step(JNIEnv * =
env, jobject obj);=20
};=20
=20
JNI is the "Java Native Interface". It's a way to escape from JAVA
into native (C, Fortran, COBOL, name your poison) code.

Since Android runs in a virtual machine and is written in a dialect
of JAVA, the only way to run native code is to escape the JVM using
JNI calls.
still searching and waiting for phone os where you could run c desktop apps=
Ubuntu touch OS would have allowed this, had it not been cancelled.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Touch
fir
2017-05-05 18:48:28 UTC
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Post by Scott Lurndal
W dniu pi=C4=85tek, 5 maja 2017 18:48:25 UTC+2 u=C5=BCytkownik Thiago Adams=
is there some model of popular smartphone on which i just could code ju=
but what is that=20
extern "C" {=20
JNIEXPORT void JNICALL Java_com_android_gl2jni_GL2JNILib_init(JNIEnv * =
env, jobject obj, jint width, jint height);=20
JNIEXPORT void JNICALL Java_com_android_gl2jni_GL2JNILib_step(JNIEnv * =
env, jobject obj);=20
};=20
=20
JNI is the "Java Native Interface". It's a way to escape from JAVA
into native (C, Fortran, COBOL, name your poison) code.
Since Android runs in a virtual machine and is written in a dialect
of JAVA, the only way to run native code is to escape the JVM using
JNI calls.
still searching and waiting for phone os where you could run c desktop apps=
Ubuntu touch OS would have allowed this, had it not been cancelled.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Touch
and this what you link with such jni is a c api outside the virtual machine or what? you leave this virtual machina at a side and code it like c on linux (which i also sont know how work i got only bigger experience in c/winapi) or what?
Scott Lurndal
2017-05-05 19:09:47 UTC
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and this what you link with such jni is a c api outside the virtual machine=
or what? you leave this virtual machina at a side and code it like c on li=
nux (which i also sont know how work i got only bigger experience in c/wina=
pi) or what?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Native_Interface
fir
2017-05-05 19:20:14 UTC
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Post by Scott Lurndal
and this what you link with such jni is a c api outside the virtual machine=
or what? you leave this virtual machina at a side and code it like c on li=
nux (which i also sont know how work i got only bigger experience in c/wina=
pi) or what?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Native_Interface
well maybe it is just something like java app frame that allows you to call native c/asm routines from it?
or ebentually it may be opposite - native frame that calls loaded virtual machine
from that ?
to be honest right now im to tired to read into that (got my mind fixed on other task) - may ty to do it toomorrow
Arkadiusz Drabczyk
2017-05-05 18:02:39 UTC
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Post by fir
is there some model of popular smartphone on which i just could code
just in c? (most preferably with mingw on windows sending executable
just down there?)
fckn phones - crappy java, obj-c (better than java but still ugly
obj-c api), or .net/xna trash)
is there something 'normal' there? (i dont even get a phone (not
counting very old partially damaged one) so i just dont know)..
You can easily write a program in C and run it on Android, there are
actually built-in programs written in C. It comes down to:

/opt/gcc-linaro-6.3.1-2017.02-x86_64_arm-linux-gnueabi/bin/arm-linux-gnueabi-gcc main.c -o main --static

or:

/opt/android-ndk/android-ndk-r14b/toolchains/arm-linux-androideabi-4.9/prebuilt/linux-x86_64/bin/arm-linux-androideabi-gcc --sysroot /opt/android-ndk/android-ndk-r14b/platforms/android-19/arch-arm main.c -o main -fPIC -Wl,-pie

and sending main to the phone with scp through the network or adb
through the USB cable.

However, I think it's not possible to easily create GUI using C/C++ on
Android. Instead, I recommend you took a look at Tizen. They are
known for using EFL at its core and is it's a C-oriented library it
might be possible to use C exclusively for everything. Here for
example
https://developer.tizen.org/sites/default/files/documentation/guide_to_developing_tizen_native_application_en_2.pdf
on page 46 they show C code they use to create a demo app. However,
Tizen is not as popular as Android ad iOS.
--
Arkadiusz Drabczyk
fir
2017-05-05 18:13:47 UTC
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Post by Arkadiusz Drabczyk
Post by fir
is there some model of popular smartphone on which i just could code
just in c? (most preferably with mingw on windows sending executable
just down there?)
fckn phones - crappy java, obj-c (better than java but still ugly
obj-c api), or .net/xna trash)
is there something 'normal' there? (i dont even get a phone (not
counting very old partially damaged one) so i just dont know)..
You can easily write a program in C and run it on Android, there are
/opt/gcc-linaro-6.3.1-2017.02-x86_64_arm-linux-gnueabi/bin/arm-linux-gnueabi-gcc main.c -o main --static
/opt/android-ndk/android-ndk-r14b/toolchains/arm-linux-androideabi-4.9/prebuilt/linux-x86_64/bin/arm-linux-androideabi-gcc --sysroot /opt/android-ndk/android-ndk-r14b/platforms/android-19/arch-arm main.c -o main -fPIC -Wl,-pie
and sending main to the phone with scp through the network or adb
through the USB cable.
but it is possible to compile and run something like classic hallo world in c there or simple fullscreen app in pure c?

i dont want to invest my time in that
only could do if there is such c environment?

what is that compiler does that min that i need to download bloated android sdk to run something?

i would like to code as i do on windows use mingw to compile executable and i link to system dlls - not any bloated sdk at all - i need such kind of c way on phones
Post by Arkadiusz Drabczyk
However, I think it's not possible to easily create GUI using C/C++ on
Android. Instead, I recommend you took a look at Tizen. They are
known for using EFL at its core and is it's a C-oriented library it
might be possible to use C exclusively for everything. Here for
example
https://developer.tizen.org/sites/default/files/documentation/guide_to_developing_tizen_native_application_en_2.pdf
on page 46 they show C code they use to create a demo app. However,
Tizen is not as popular as Android ad iOS.
--
Arkadiusz Drabczyk
Arkadiusz Drabczyk
2017-05-05 18:33:20 UTC
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Post by fir
Post by Arkadiusz Drabczyk
Post by fir
is there some model of popular smartphone on which i just could code
just in c? (most preferably with mingw on windows sending executable
just down there?)
fckn phones - crappy java, obj-c (better than java but still ugly
obj-c api), or .net/xna trash)
is there something 'normal' there? (i dont even get a phone (not
counting very old partially damaged one) so i just dont know)..
You can easily write a program in C and run it on Android, there are
/opt/gcc-linaro-6.3.1-2017.02-x86_64_arm-linux-gnueabi/bin/arm-linux-gnueabi-gcc main.c -o main --static
/opt/android-ndk/android-ndk-r14b/toolchains/arm-linux-androideabi-4.9/prebuilt/linux-x86_64/bin/arm-linux-androideabi-gcc --sysroot /opt/android-ndk/android-ndk-r14b/platforms/android-19/arch-arm main.c -o main -fPIC -Wl,-pie
and sending main to the phone with scp through the network or adb
through the USB cable.
but it is possible to compile and run something like classic hallo world in c there or simple fullscreen app in pure c?
As said I don't think it's possible to write a full-blown app using C
on Android. If you want take a look at Tizen I mentioned in my post,
it might be doable there.
--
Arkadiusz Drabczyk
fir
2017-05-05 18:44:42 UTC
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Post by Arkadiusz Drabczyk
Post by fir
Post by Arkadiusz Drabczyk
Post by fir
is there some model of popular smartphone on which i just could code
just in c? (most preferably with mingw on windows sending executable
just down there?)
fckn phones - crappy java, obj-c (better than java but still ugly
obj-c api), or .net/xna trash)
is there something 'normal' there? (i dont even get a phone (not
counting very old partially damaged one) so i just dont know)..
You can easily write a program in C and run it on Android, there are
/opt/gcc-linaro-6.3.1-2017.02-x86_64_arm-linux-gnueabi/bin/arm-linux-gnueabi-gcc main.c -o main --static
/opt/android-ndk/android-ndk-r14b/toolchains/arm-linux-androideabi-4.9/prebuilt/linux-x86_64/bin/arm-linux-androideabi-gcc --sysroot /opt/android-ndk/android-ndk-r14b/platforms/android-19/arch-arm main.c -o main -fPIC -Wl,-pie
and sending main to the phone with scp through the network or adb
through the USB cable.
but it is possible to compile and run something like classic hallo world in c there or simple fullscreen app in pure c?
As said I don't think it's possible to write a full-blown app using C
on Android. If you want take a look at Tizen I mentioned in my post,
it might be doable there.
--
Arkadiusz Drabczyk
and that tizen is this os for new smartphones on the marked or for something old?

ps if you know how ist on android and why i cannot code this way could you maybe say exactly why? which points of my axpectation dont pass?
Arkadiusz Drabczyk
2017-05-05 18:59:13 UTC
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Post by fir
Post by Arkadiusz Drabczyk
Post by fir
Post by Arkadiusz Drabczyk
Post by fir
is there some model of popular smartphone on which i just could code
just in c? (most preferably with mingw on windows sending executable
just down there?)
fckn phones - crappy java, obj-c (better than java but still ugly
obj-c api), or .net/xna trash)
is there something 'normal' there? (i dont even get a phone (not
counting very old partially damaged one) so i just dont know)..
You can easily write a program in C and run it on Android, there are
/opt/gcc-linaro-6.3.1-2017.02-x86_64_arm-linux-gnueabi/bin/arm-linux-gnueabi-gcc main.c -o main --static
/opt/android-ndk/android-ndk-r14b/toolchains/arm-linux-androideabi-4.9/prebuilt/linux-x86_64/bin/arm-linux-androideabi-gcc --sysroot /opt/android-ndk/android-ndk-r14b/platforms/android-19/arch-arm main.c -o main -fPIC -Wl,-pie
and sending main to the phone with scp through the network or adb
through the USB cable.
but it is possible to compile and run something like classic hallo world in c there or simple fullscreen app in pure c?
As said I don't think it's possible to write a full-blown app using C
on Android. If you want take a look at Tizen I mentioned in my post,
it might be doable there.
and that tizen is this os for new smartphones on the marked or for something old?
Sorry, I am no expert on Tizen. There used be a Tizen phone available
to buy in India, I guess it was named Z-1. Also one of Samsung smart
watches runs Tizen.
Post by fir
ps if you know how ist on android and why i cannot code this way could you maybe say exactly why? which points of my axpectation dont pass?
I think UI especially cannot be easily written with anything else but
Java because there are no easy-to-use C bindings. But there are
various projects such as this one https://www.juce.com/ which try to
make it possible to use C++ but still not C. See more here:

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/10583713/android-build-native-gui-app-with-ndk
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/12822185/is-it-possible-to-create-ui-elements-with-the-ndk-lack-of-specs-in-android-d
https://www.codeproject.com/Articles/396538/Writing-an-Android-GUI-using-Cplusplus-Introductio

Yet, apparently other things such as sensors can be easily used from
NDK:

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/19089418/gyroscope-and-magnetic-field-sensor-events-in-android-ndk

Note that although I write in C daily I wouldn't desperately look for
a way to write in C for Android because I believe it's a waste of
time. Java bindings are much more common and you can find more
documentation and support for them.

BTW, C has never been a popular choice for writing GUIs so it's not
surprise that C++ or Java are preferred.
--
Arkadiusz Drabczyk
fir
2017-05-05 19:13:57 UTC
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Post by Arkadiusz Drabczyk
Post by fir
Post by Arkadiusz Drabczyk
Post by fir
Post by Arkadiusz Drabczyk
Post by fir
is there some model of popular smartphone on which i just could code
just in c? (most preferably with mingw on windows sending executable
just down there?)
fckn phones - crappy java, obj-c (better than java but still ugly
obj-c api), or .net/xna trash)
is there something 'normal' there? (i dont even get a phone (not
counting very old partially damaged one) so i just dont know)..
You can easily write a program in C and run it on Android, there are
/opt/gcc-linaro-6.3.1-2017.02-x86_64_arm-linux-gnueabi/bin/arm-linux-gnueabi-gcc main.c -o main --static
/opt/android-ndk/android-ndk-r14b/toolchains/arm-linux-androideabi-4.9/prebuilt/linux-x86_64/bin/arm-linux-androideabi-gcc --sysroot /opt/android-ndk/android-ndk-r14b/platforms/android-19/arch-arm main.c -o main -fPIC -Wl,-pie
and sending main to the phone with scp through the network or adb
through the USB cable.
but it is possible to compile and run something like classic hallo world in c there or simple fullscreen app in pure c?
As said I don't think it's possible to write a full-blown app using C
on Android. If you want take a look at Tizen I mentioned in my post,
it might be doable there.
and that tizen is this os for new smartphones on the marked or for something old?
Sorry, I am no expert on Tizen. There used be a Tizen phone available
to buy in India, I guess it was named Z-1. Also one of Samsung smart
watches runs Tizen.
Post by fir
ps if you know how ist on android and why i cannot code this way could you maybe say exactly why? which points of my axpectation dont pass?
I think UI especially cannot be easily written with anything else but
Java because there are no easy-to-use C bindings. But there are
various projects such as this one https://www.juce.com/ which try to
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/10583713/android-build-native-gui-app-with-ndk
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/12822185/is-it-possible-to-create-ui-elements-with-the-ndk-lack-of-specs-in-android-d
https://www.codeproject.com/Articles/396538/Writing-an-Android-GUI-using-Cplusplus-Introductio
Yet, apparently other things such as sensors can be easily used from
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/19089418/gyroscope-and-magnetic-field-sensor-events-in-android-ndk
Note that although I write in C daily I wouldn't desperately look for
a way to write in C for Android because I believe it's a waste of
time. Java bindings are much more common and you can find more
documentation and support for them.
BTW, C has never been a popular choice for writing GUIs so it's not
surprise that C++ or Java are preferred.
--
Arkadiusz Drabczyk
so you say "no easy to use c binding",
what with another element i guess java apps make java binary code aps, can you just make native c executable and run that? (if you dont know tahat just say dont know, i personally got no much time to read on this for hours and days i not plan to code on smartfones in near future, im just curious to know one
with pure c 'access'

as to gui, one not need to do much gui in c (not so hard if you write your own small lib in c to do that, im not sure i always just open one window one wievpoty and code graphics into that)
Arkadiusz Drabczyk
2017-05-05 19:38:14 UTC
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Post by fir
Post by Arkadiusz Drabczyk
I think UI especially cannot be easily written with anything else but
Java because there are no easy-to-use C bindings. But there are
various projects such as this one https://www.juce.com/ which try to
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/10583713/android-build-native-gui-app-with-ndk
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/12822185/is-it-possible-to-create-ui-elements-with-the-ndk-lack-of-specs-in-android-d
https://www.codeproject.com/Articles/396538/Writing-an-Android-GUI-using-Cplusplus-Introductio
Yet, apparently other things such as sensors can be easily used from
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/19089418/gyroscope-and-magnetic-field-sensor-events-in-android-ndk
Note that although I write in C daily I wouldn't desperately look for
a way to write in C for Android because I believe it's a waste of
time. Java bindings are much more common and you can find more
documentation and support for them.
BTW, C has never been a popular choice for writing GUIs so it's not
surprise that C++ or Java are preferred.
so you say "no easy to use c binding",
what with another element i guess java apps make java binary code aps, can you just make native c executable and run that? (if you dont know tahat just say dont know, i personally got no much time to read on this for hours and days i not plan to code on smartfones in near future, im just curious to know one
with pure c 'access'
as to gui, one not need to do much gui in c (not so hard if you write your own small lib in c to do that, im not sure i always just open one window one wievpoty and code graphics into that)
I cannot understand that question. I think that JNI/NDK makes native
ELFs for Android + it contains some API for operating a device. Just
look for examples and tutorials if you got interested.
--
Arkadiusz Drabczyk
fir
2017-05-05 19:57:42 UTC
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Post by Arkadiusz Drabczyk
Post by fir
Post by Arkadiusz Drabczyk
I think UI especially cannot be easily written with anything else but
Java because there are no easy-to-use C bindings. But there are
various projects such as this one https://www.juce.com/ which try to
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/10583713/android-build-native-gui-app-with-ndk
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/12822185/is-it-possible-to-create-ui-elements-with-the-ndk-lack-of-specs-in-android-d
https://www.codeproject.com/Articles/396538/Writing-an-Android-GUI-using-Cplusplus-Introductio
Yet, apparently other things such as sensors can be easily used from
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/19089418/gyroscope-and-magnetic-field-sensor-events-in-android-ndk
Note that although I write in C daily I wouldn't desperately look for
a way to write in C for Android because I believe it's a waste of
time. Java bindings are much more common and you can find more
documentation and support for them.
BTW, C has never been a popular choice for writing GUIs so it's not
surprise that C++ or Java are preferred.
so you say "no easy to use c binding",
what with another element i guess java apps make java binary code aps, can you just make native c executable and run that? (if you dont know tahat just say dont know, i personally got no much time to read on this for hours and days i not plan to code on smartfones in near future, im just curious to know one
with pure c 'access'
as to gui, one not need to do much gui in c (not so hard if you write your own small lib in c to do that, im not sure i always just open one window one wievpoty and code graphics into that)
I cannot understand that question. I think that JNI/NDK makes native
ELFs for Android + it contains some API for operating a device. Just
look for examples and tutorials if you got interested.
and bytecode is elf? java produces some bytecode afaik - native code = assembly for given cpu

as far form this explanations i understood that system api interface is accessible only from under java virtual machine - dont know if one could just
run native code strightly on the cpu

iphone is better at least no virtual machine but the object-oriented
and sorta garbage-colected nature
of this api also makes this somewhat distant form c simplicity (as far as i remember, i coded a bit on iphone but not much long and years ago)
Cholo Lennon
2017-05-05 18:30:20 UTC
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Post by fir
is there some model of popular smartphone on which i just could code just in c? (most preferably with mingw on windows sending executable just down there?)
fckn phones - crappy java, obj-c (better than java but still ugly obj-c api), or .net/xna trash)
is there something 'normal' there?
Define 'normal'... well, nowadays developing an app in plain C is not
'normal' IMHO
Post by fir
(i dont even get a phone (not counting very old partially damaged one) so i just dont know)..
--
Cholo Lennon
Bs.As.
ARG
fir
2017-05-05 18:42:25 UTC
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Post by Cholo Lennon
Post by fir
is there some model of popular smartphone on which i just could code just in c? (most preferably with mingw on windows sending executable just down there?)
fckn phones - crappy java, obj-c (better than java but still ugly obj-c api), or .net/xna trash)
is there something 'normal' there?
Define 'normal'... well, nowadays developing an app in plain C is not
'normal' IMHO
i told what i mean - i mean normal c way
you got plain c source you compile it (with given compiler and my preferable editor) to executable, you got it done

i also want to dynamically link against system api - pure c system api would be prefferred but if such is non avaliable i could link agains some other nature system api but with c interface (this is a bit wore option)

in short i just want to code on it like i code in c + winapi, i write pure c code i include "windowsh" here and done
Post by Cholo Lennon
Post by fir
(i dont even get a phone (not counting very old partially damaged one) so i just dont know)..
--
Cholo Lennon
Bs.As.
ARG
Cholo Lennon
2017-05-05 18:59:06 UTC
Reply
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Post by fir
Post by Cholo Lennon
Post by fir
is there some model of popular smartphone on which i just could code just in c? (most preferably with mingw on windows sending executable just down there?)
fckn phones - crappy java, obj-c (better than java but still ugly obj-c api), or .net/xna trash)
is there something 'normal' there?
Define 'normal'... well, nowadays developing an app in plain C is not
'normal' IMHO
i told what i mean - i mean normal c way
you got plain c source you compile it (with given compiler and my preferable editor) to executable, you got it done
i also want to dynamically link against system api - pure c system api would be prefferred but if such is non avaliable i could link agains some other nature system api but with c interface (this is a bit wore option)
in short i just want to code on it like i code in c + winapi, i write pure c code i include "windowsh" here and done
But ... that's a painful task :-0 (I did a lot of programming in C for
Windows in the past, I'd never recommend that way to anyone)
--
Cholo Lennon
Bs.As.
ARG
fir
2017-05-05 19:08:16 UTC
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Post by Cholo Lennon
Post by fir
Post by Cholo Lennon
Post by fir
is there some model of popular smartphone on which i just could code just in c? (most preferably with mingw on windows sending executable just down there?)
fckn phones - crappy java, obj-c (better than java but still ugly obj-c api), or .net/xna trash)
is there something 'normal' there?
Define 'normal'... well, nowadays developing an app in plain C is not
'normal' IMHO
i told what i mean - i mean normal c way
you got plain c source you compile it (with given compiler and my preferable editor) to executable, you got it done
i also want to dynamically link against system api - pure c system api would be prefferred but if such is non avaliable i could link agains some other nature system api but with c interface (this is a bit wore option)
in short i just want to code on it like i code in c + winapi, i write pure c code i include "windowsh" here and done
But ... that's a painful task :-0 (I did a lot of programming in C for
Windows in the past, I'd never recommend that way to anyone)
for me its quite good (if you know that, got it trained) I guarantee i get coding here on c+winapi more easy clear and pleasant that say javascript + canvas
coding
bartc
2017-05-05 19:53:44 UTC
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Post by Cholo Lennon
Post by fir
in short i just want to code on it like i code in c + winapi, i write
pure c code i include "windowsh" here and done
But ... that's a painful task :-0 (I did a lot of programming in C for
Windows in the past, I'd never recommend that way to anyone)
Yes it was. But the modern way (using Java and mega-sized IDEs or
whatever it is that is needed) looks even more painful!

Someone earlier suggested it could be done via VS 2017. For me, that
would be like having to cross a raging river full of crocodiles.
(Actually, the latter would be easier as I know it will be plain sailing
on the other side.)

20 years ago I was using Win API but also made available a far simpler
API via the scripting language of my application, to allow anyone to
trivially program graphics. They didn't need to know anything about the
Win32 API (all that repainting nonsense for example; they draw
something, and it stayed there!).

I'm surprised such a layer isn't available on Android so that someone
doesn't need to use the Java-based tools but something they might be
more familiar with.

Otherwise the Android appears to me to be a closed system.
--
bartc
Scott Lurndal
2017-05-05 20:15:38 UTC
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Post by bartc
Yes it was. But the modern way (using Java and mega-sized IDEs or
whatever it is that is needed) looks even more painful!
All you need to write a java program is your favorite editor.

effectively:

$ vim program.java
$ javac program.java
$ java program
Ian Collins
2017-05-05 20:20:06 UTC
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Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by bartc
Yes it was. But the modern way (using Java and mega-sized IDEs or
whatever it is that is needed) looks even more painful!
All you need to write a java program is your favorite editor.
$ vim program.java
$ javac program.java
$ java program
To be fair, writing for Android devices isn't quite that simple!
--
Ian
Joe Pfeiffer
2017-05-06 04:20:24 UTC
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Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by bartc
Yes it was. But the modern way (using Java and mega-sized IDEs or
whatever it is that is needed) looks even more painful!
All you need to write a java program is your favorite editor.
$ vim program.java
$ javac program.java
$ java program
Have you ever put together an APK for Android? In principle, that's
possible. In my (limited, thank God) experience, the platform is so
ridiculously complicated a stupid-big IDE really is necessary.
Chad
2017-05-06 20:11:19 UTC
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Post by Joe Pfeiffer
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by bartc
Yes it was. But the modern way (using Java and mega-sized IDEs or
whatever it is that is needed) looks even more painful!
All you need to write a java program is your favorite editor.
$ vim program.java
$ javac program.java
$ java program
Have you ever put together an APK for Android? In principle, that's
possible. In my (limited, thank God) experience, the platform is so
ridiculously complicated a stupid-big IDE really is necessary.
I have. It's a really long and complicated process. I need the IDE, because for whatever reasons, all the relevant project files aren't included when I build a project. As a result, I have to use the IDE to search for the methods to either override and/or implement. On top of that, having XML tied in makes things even more complicated.

And things get really awesome because there are different types of phones. As a result, I have to deal with both version control and API level. There is also something that controls the Java version when linking multiple projects. However, I'm not even going to attempt to touch that.
fir
2017-05-05 20:53:14 UTC
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Post by Cholo Lennon
Post by fir
Post by Cholo Lennon
Post by fir
is there some model of popular smartphone on which i just could code just in c? (most preferably with mingw on windows sending executable just down there?)
fckn phones - crappy java, obj-c (better than java but still ugly obj-c api), or .net/xna trash)
is there something 'normal' there?
Define 'normal'... well, nowadays developing an app in plain C is not
'normal' IMHO
i told what i mean - i mean normal c way
you got plain c source you compile it (with given compiler and my preferable editor) to executable, you got it done
i also want to dynamically link against system api - pure c system api would be prefferred but if such is non avaliable i could link agains some other nature system api but with c interface (this is a bit wore option)
in short i just want to code on it like i code in c + winapi, i write pure c code i include "windowsh" here and done
But ... that's a painful task :-0 (I did a lot of programming in C for
Windows in the past, I'd never recommend that way to anyone)
personally i would be happy if thay in ms would help just win xp to that theit 'lumia' phone - i would be just copy exes to it like to pendrive (well if any phone processor could execute x86)

thet would be far better that this .net /xna crap
Chad
2017-05-05 23:55:48 UTC
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I *think* the binding he is referring to is late binding.
j***@gmail.com
2017-05-06 00:13:44 UTC
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Post by Chad
I *think* the binding he is referring to is late binding.
Considering that we are talking about "smartphone OSses", probably so,
but what was the context?
j***@gmail.com
2017-05-06 00:59:09 UTC
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Post by fir
Post by Cholo Lennon
Post by fir
Post by Cholo Lennon
Post by fir
is there some model of popular smartphone on which i just could code just in c? (most preferably with mingw on windows sending executable just down there?)
fckn phones - crappy java, obj-c (better than java but still ugly obj-c api), or .net/xna trash)
is there something 'normal' there?
Define 'normal'... well, nowadays developing an app in plain C is not
'normal' IMHO
i told what i mean - i mean normal c way
you got plain c source you compile it (with given compiler and my preferable editor) to executable, you got it done
i also want to dynamically link against system api - pure c system api would be prefferred but if such is non avaliable i could link agains some other nature system api but with c interface (this is a bit wore option)
in short i just want to code on it like i code in c + winapi, i write pure c code i include "windowsh" here and done
But ... that's a painful task :-0 (I did a lot of programming in C for
Windows in the past, I'd never recommend that way to anyone)
personally i would be happy if thay in ms would help just win xp to that theit 'lumia' phone - i would be just copy exes to it like to pendrive (well if any phone processor could execute x86)
thet would be far better that this .net /xna crap
What can be done for you?

The new MSWindows API is .net .

Most phones do not use x86 CPUs.
Non-smartphones that use the x86 pretty much don't exist any more.
Smartphones that use x86 CPUs are less than 1%.

There is a very good reason for that, although Intel does not
want you to know that reason.

Most phones do not use any MSWindows API at all.
Non-smartphones that use MSWindows phone OS are zero.
Smartphones that use MSWindows phone OS are less than 1%.

There is a very good reason for that, too.

New MSWindows smartphones use the .net API, IIRC.

I think there are old MSWindows CE smartphones in existence somewhere.
But they do not use x86. They use ARM CPUs.

Mingw is x86 or AMD64.

Let me say that again: Mingw is x86 or AMD64.

If you want a phone that you can program using Mingw (why not Cygwin?)
you will have to

(1) make millions of dollars doing something else,
(2) hire engineers to design and build the phone and OS, and
(3) wait a long time.

Or you will have to learn the API of an existing phone and write an
emulator for it.

Oh, oh, oh, oh, wait a minute. I think I know what you want, although I
strongly advise against it.

Search with your favorite search engine for

dos emulator for iOS

and

dos emulator for android

... (ick) and, I guess,

dos emulator for microsoft phone

although that last one means you'll have to look really hard for a
phone to run it on.

For searching on Google, that would be something like

https://www.google.co.jp/search?q=dos+emulator+for+iOS
https://www.google.co.jp/search?q=dos+emulator+for+android
https://www.google.co.jp/search?q=dos+emulator+for+microsoft+phone+OS

These are applications that run *emulators* on your phone.

Kind of like Debian Noroot, but much, slower.

I am not guaranteeing that you can use Mingw on that. But if you
really think that Mingw is the only way to write "real C", that's
probably your best bet.

But you would still be running in an emulated environment, even if
got it working.

Who knows? Maybe it would end up cheaper than learning Java or
Objective-C/Swift(is-not-swiftforth).

--
Joel Rees

It's lonely trying to re-invent the industry all by myself:
http://defining-computers.blogspot.jp/
j***@gmail.com
2017-05-06 01:05:26 UTC
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And, FWIW, there are apps that allow to program in C on Android
phones. I don't know how many allow you to build UI programs.

Search for

C compiler for Android

or such.

I have not tried any of them, so I have nothing to report, good or
ill.

Most of them are not free, but not all that expensive, I suppose.

--
Joel Rees

Randomly ranting:
http://reiisi.blogspot.com
fir
2017-05-06 22:59:59 UTC
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Post by j***@gmail.com
Post by fir
Post by Cholo Lennon
Post by fir
Post by Cholo Lennon
Post by fir
is there some model of popular smartphone on which i just could code just in c? (most preferably with mingw on windows sending executable just down there?)
fckn phones - crappy java, obj-c (better than java but still ugly obj-c api), or .net/xna trash)
is there something 'normal' there?
Define 'normal'... well, nowadays developing an app in plain C is not
'normal' IMHO
i told what i mean - i mean normal c way
you got plain c source you compile it (with given compiler and my preferable editor) to executable, you got it done
i also want to dynamically link against system api - pure c system api would be prefferred but if such is non avaliable i could link agains some other nature system api but with c interface (this is a bit wore option)
in short i just want to code on it like i code in c + winapi, i write pure c code i include "windowsh" here and done
But ... that's a painful task :-0 (I did a lot of programming in C for
Windows in the past, I'd never recommend that way to anyone)
personally i would be happy if thay in ms would help just win xp to that theit 'lumia' phone - i would be just copy exes to it like to pendrive (well if any phone processor could execute x86)
thet would be far better that this .net /xna crap
What can be done for you?
The new MSWindows API is .net .
Most phones do not use x86 CPUs.
Non-smartphones that use the x86 pretty much don't exist any more.
Smartphones that use x86 CPUs are less than 1%.
There is a very good reason for that, although Intel does not
want you to know that reason.
Most phones do not use any MSWindows API at all.
Non-smartphones that use MSWindows phone OS are zero.
Smartphones that use MSWindows phone OS are less than 1%.
There is a very good reason for that, too.
New MSWindows smartphones use the .net API, IIRC.
I think there are old MSWindows CE smartphones in existence somewhere.
But they do not use x86. They use ARM CPUs.
Mingw is x86 or AMD64.
Let me say that again: Mingw is x86 or AMD64.
If you want a phone that you can program using Mingw (why not Cygwin?)
you will have to
(1) make millions of dollars doing something else,
(2) hire engineers to design and build the phone and OS, and
(3) wait a long time.
Or you will have to learn the API of an existing phone and write an
emulator for it.
Oh, oh, oh, oh, wait a minute. I think I know what you want, although I
strongly advise against it.
Search with your favorite search engine for
dos emulator for iOS
and
dos emulator for android
... (ick) and, I guess,
dos emulator for microsoft phone
although that last one means you'll have to look really hard for a
phone to run it on.
For searching on Google, that would be something like
https://www.google.co.jp/search?q=dos+emulator+for+iOS
https://www.google.co.jp/search?q=dos+emulator+for+android
https://www.google.co.jp/search?q=dos+emulator+for+microsoft+phone+OS
These are applications that run *emulators* on your phone.
Kind of like Debian Noroot, but much, slower.
I am not guaranteeing that you can use Mingw on that. But if you
really think that Mingw is the only way to write "real C", that's
probably your best bet.
But you would still be running in an emulated environment, even if
got it working.
Who knows? Maybe it would end up cheaper than learning Java or
Objective-C/Swift(is-not-swiftforth).
this win xp on the phone was side note (side remark)..
winapi is somewhat badly desingned (works good imo but lookin bad) and it would be better to design something simpler/nicer, though i would get the same executables on desktop and phones
so that would equal makin new desktop os
maybe a bit unconvenient - so othervise it could be maybe just linux/android but
without java wirtual machine or without obligatory wirtual machine - just running c linux executables (i dont code for linux though so for me personally windows would be better bot from licence/open source perspective linux would be better)
(just no obligatory java please) - or another new os. what to say. im waiting
Chad
2017-05-07 00:59:16 UTC
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According to an unnamed tech executive, like, the reason why the created a new os is because how a piece of software responds to a finger touch is different than how it responds to a mouse.
David Kleinecke
2017-05-07 01:33:30 UTC
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Post by Chad
According to an unnamed tech executive, like, the reason why the created a new os is because how a piece of software responds to a finger touch is different than how it responds to a mouse.
I am just now learning how to work without a mouse. Not exactly
without - the computer involved is a Surface Book - but the control
of a laptop mouse is so hard for me I'm using the touch screen
mostly instead. I find the response times quite disconcerting.

Of course, I am trying to jump from half-forgotten Windows 95 to
Windows 10 and that might explain everything.
Joe Pfeiffer
2017-05-07 02:33:21 UTC
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Post by Chad
According to an unnamed tech executive, like, the reason why the
created a new os is because how a piece of software responds to a
finger touch is different than how it responds to a mouse.
Of course, they didn't create a new OS, they created a new set of Java
libraries.
Chad
2017-05-07 03:53:51 UTC
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Post by Joe Pfeiffer
Post by Chad
According to an unnamed tech executive, like, the reason why the
created a new os is because how a piece of software responds to a
finger touch is different than how it responds to a mouse.
Of course, they didn't create a new OS, they created a new set of Java
libraries.
How do you figure? According to Wikipedia, Android is a mobile operating system based on the Linux Kernel. And I *think* some of the some of the code supports this. Because buried deep within the technical documents, Google starts to imply that there is a difference between a callback and a hook.

But it gets better. On the sample code provided by Google, hooking modifies my phone behavior while a callback just modies my apps behavior. However, I might be just babbling. This is because the painkillers that I'm on right now is making be a tad bit loopy. As a result, like, I might be sound like fir.
Joe Pfeiffer
2017-05-07 20:44:28 UTC
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Post by Chad
Post by Joe Pfeiffer
Post by Chad
According to an unnamed tech executive, like, the reason why the
created a new os is because how a piece of software responds to a
finger touch is different than how it responds to a mouse.
Of course, they didn't create a new OS, they created a new set of Java
libraries.
How do you figure? According to Wikipedia, Android is a mobile
operating system based on the Linux Kernel. And I *think* some of the
some of the code supports this. Because buried deep within the
technical documents, Google starts to imply that there is a difference
between a callback and a hook.
But it gets better. On the sample code provided by Google, hooking
modifies my phone behavior while a callback just modies my apps
behavior. However, I might be just babbling. This is because the
painkillers that I'm on right now is making be a tad bit loopy. As a
result, like, I might be sound like fir.
Google likes to call android an operating system. When I open up a
shell window on my phone and find things like busybox, it's clear that
there is a lot more of linux in it than the kernel.
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